A good conspiracy movie can be a fun time, but when it moves into the arena of real life the concepts can get a bit disturbing. In the documentary TerrorStorm, filmmaker/radio host/writer Alex Jones lays out some heavy duty ammo that paints some very shadowy edges on our blissful day-to-day existence. dOc recently spoke with Jones to get his outlook on the big reach of the U.S. government, and things that he believes it is doing to move us toward what he calls "dark times."
dOc: Do you remember the first event that really made you suspect of the government?
Alex Jones: You mean being involved in government-sponsored terror?
dOc: Well, you're involved in a couple of web sites, you put out DVDs, you have a radio show, you do public speaking. There had to be some event where you first figured that things looked kind of shady to you.
AJ: Let me think about that. That's a good question. I'd have to say it would be history itself. I wasn't a big bookworm, but I did read quite a bit, and I found that non-fiction was more interesting than fiction. I'd read a lot of history books, and governments are always engaged in really shady activities, because it's just made up of people. And it's made of people who are more competitive and more power-hungry than just the general public. So I was already aware of a lot of the sinister activities of governments throughout history, and then I remember Waco, back in 1993. I just did some cursory inspections of it, and found out that everything we were told pretty much by the government and the media had been a lie. Then, of course, today almost all Americans know the government went in there to kill the people, set it on fire and lied about it. I've talked with other people that [say] it's one of the big events that has really caused them to wake up.
dOc: That wasn't the only thing, was it?
AJ: There's not just cases where the government doesn't purely carry out a terror attack by themselves. More often, they go pay for it and fund the people that are doing it.
dOc: Pulling the strings and controlling it?
AJ: Yes, there's a lot of that. I was already well aware of government-sponsored terror long before 9/11 took place. I saw the preparatory phase on television, and of course those involved in the preparatory phase aren't involved in the attack itself. They're just told by the experts "there are going to be terror attacks, America's going to change, you're going to give your rights up", and I saw a big buildup to that right before 9/11. I went on the radio and I said they're about to do something big, and people said "ok, what it is?" On my radio and TV show—there's a video clip of it on the web—I said they're probably going to attack the World Trade Center. They've already attacked it once, and they'll claim Osama Bin Laden did it. Sure enough, that's what happened. Time and time again we see this same MO. We have powerful global interests that want to take our liberties, want to take our freedoms, want to ensure that we can't resist the things that they're doing and they either orchestrate terror or claim they were attacked when they weren't attacked.
dOc: Like the Gulf of Tonkin?
AJ: The Gulf of Tonkin is another type of case because it's not where they've provocateured an attack or they funded one. The Gulf of Tonkin in 1964 for years caused conspiracy theorists to say it didn't really happen, and now that it's been declassified in the last two years, it's been admitted that the destroyers weren't fired upon, that in truth they had Navy gunboats up close to the shore attacking the North Vietnamese, trying to get them to fire back. But the North Vietnamese were so smart that they didn't, and they saw they were being sucked into something. They saw it as a provocation, and were smart, but that didn't matter. LBJ just went on radio and TV and told the press that our destroyers were attacked. Two years ago they declassified the interviews and phone conversations between LBJ and [his Defense Secretary Robert] McNamara where they're saying "we staged it."
dOc: And the thing is, that's one of those events that the majority of Americans have no clue about.
AJ: All they have to do is do a Google search they'll see the mainstream news admitting it was staged.
dOc: If they do search. They have to know about it first.
AJ: Certainly you're right, because very few people know that's been publicly admitted. You're absolutely right. I agree with you.
dOc: In TerrorStorm you talk about 9/11 being an inside job. Do you find that concept difficult to try and get across to the masses? What's the reaction when you try to convince someone of that?
AJ: Well, number one, do I find that an idea not palatable to the general public? Five years ago I would have said 70-80% of the people thought it was too early to say that, that it was offensive. But people started saying something is wrong, and they had heard they had been lied to about the government saying they had never heard of a plan to hijack jets and fly them into buildings. They had then finally learned that bin Laden had admittedly been CIA before, and so they were starting to question. Now in major polls—they had a poll a few weeks ago% of Americans believe they're being lied to about 9/11, 68% believe there's a coverup, and 36% believe it was a total inside job. But when a polling company calls up a little old lady at her house, even if she thinks it's an inside job, the science of polling has shown that on really controversial questions a lot of times people will answer in what is seen as the safer, more mainstream answer.
dOc: There have been accusations of people doing that with the Nielsen ratings. It's like they say they've watched shows they think they want people to think they're watching, if that makes sense. Say you watched the Discovery Channel instead of pro wrestling.
AJ: Exactly. That's a great point, in fact I'm going to steal that and use that example when I'm trying to educate folks about that. I've read a lot about the polling sciences, and it's probably double that number. If 36% of the people think it was an inside job, and 68% in the same Scripps Howard News Service of Ohio poll say that there's a coverup, then really it's probably 68% believe it's an inside job. I have done thousands of radio interviews since 9/11, four or five a day for the last year on average, and I'll be on a mainstream, conservative talk show, say in Houston or San Diego. The host is calling me a bark-at-the-moon lunatic, I'm mentioning historical facts and they're going "liar, liar." They might take 10 or 15 calls while I'm on in an hour, and maybe one person disagrees. And the hosts are in there going "you're just a nut, you're just a kook." It's name calling. But all of the people calling in agreeing are saying "Alex Jones is a conservative, he's not a liberal." The hosts tell me I'm a liberal commie, I'm American al-Qaeda, just stupid baseline stuff like that.
dOc: Do you consider yourself a Conservative?
AJ: Sure. I don't really buy into the modern political labels. I call myself a paleo-conservative. By that, I mean I believe in national sovereignty, I believe in smaller government, I'm fiscally conservative. But I don't want to be known as a Conservative today because of the connotations. You know, words and their meanings change over time, and so I'm just a truthseeker and a freedom lover. I'm not some classical, mainline liberal seeing fascists behind every bush. This is real life fascism. This is textbook black uniform, secret police, secret arrests, torture fascism.
dOc: One of the things that struck me about TerrorStorm was no matter your mindset, you should at least watch it just to see the other side. You need to look at all sides in order to be informed, so whether you agree or disagree you should be exposed to the concepts. Even the most skeptical person.
AJ: Exactly. All I'm trying to get people to do is to look twice, to think twice. Operation Northwoods is an official U.S. government plan to stage 9/11-style attacks, and instead of saying "oh, that can't be true," they should go find out if ABC World News Tonight really reported that. And they'll find out they did. So much of what I cover is admitted, it's just the stuff that [falls] between the cracks. So we kind of scoop up that stuff and condense it down in one place.
dOc: What are your thoughts on a film like United 93?
AJ: I haven't seen it, but read reviews and a synopsis of it. I would have seen it if I had more leisure time. I see it as a work of fiction, and that it backs up the "let's roll" comments. The bottom line is that state police and others have reported they heard an explosion, that F-16s were chasing the aircraft, and the aircraft had over an eight-and-one-half mile debris field. And I don't mean a piece of paper was eight miles away, there was an engine eight miles away from other parts of the plane.
dOc: So it's your belief that United 93 was shot down?
AJ: Yes. Rumsfeld and a bunch of others in the Administration have slipped up and said that it was shot down. Planes, even if they crash in the mountains, don't ever have over a mile-wide debris field. Maximum. You only get an eight-mile debris field if a plane is hit in mid-flight, and then continues to cruise under it's own power, i.e. one engine getting blown and then the other engine getting blown. Parts of the plane were blown off eight-and-one-half miles away.
dOc: You go to great lengths to get your message out, and try to shake things up. Have you experienced any, let's say, repercussions? Do you feel your phones are tapped, etc.?
AJ: Everybody's phones are tapped in the United States. We think of the 1970s image of somebody out at the phone box at the telephone pole putting a little reel-to-reel recorder in. In 1996, under a telecommunications act, the federal government paid 9-plus billion dollars to the big phone companies to put NSA offices into every major headquarters. All of the major fiber optic and even copper systems are looped back through these hubs, and October 1, 2001 was the deadline for it to go operational. I always tell folks they don't tap your phone, they are the phone company. The NSA has offices in every major switching building. But getting back to your question, I don't believe that I specifically am routinely surveiled by actual analysts and operatives in government.
dOc: You don't think your investigations have made you someone they might keep an eye on over someone else?
AJ: No. I was taking the opportunity when you brought up being surveiled to just point out that we're all being surveiled. So computers are tapping in and randomly sampling what is being said, and that's the Echelon keyword system that's been in place for over fifteen years. And now with bigger storage space and better compression, they're listening and filtering a lot, and very little of it has to do with terrorism. It's about big, secret strategic programs set up in 1947 for economic espionage for U.S./Allied corporations to see what trends are, what we're buying, what we're doing, what ideas we have. It's been going on for a long time, and they've had total surveillance for the last fifteen years. Instead of having a computer randomly listen to me, I guarantee you that my phones have continual computers that are recording everything that's said on them. No doubt this conversation was recorded. But those analysts are so busy they only have a psychological history on my tastes and what I do, and based on the types of people I talk to and the key things I'm discussing. It's in a computer file that I would imagine is looked at routinely. But then again, most Americans of any prominence are. That's how widespread it is. It's just like in the movies.
dOc: Whenever you watch Hollywood conspiracy movies, do you roll your eyes or do you think any of it is accurate?
AJ: It's the nature of a Hollywood film to make it dynamic, to make it fast paced. The weirdness that happened to the guy in Conspiracy Theory, with Mel Gibson, might have really happened over 10 years, but it's condensed down to two hours. I think a lot of it does get exaggerated. Take Enemy of the State, there's a rogue group inside an agency, using the power of the agency to kill people and have control. That's very accurate. I don't think it's the whole government, I think it's small compartments, and these compartments are all very high up. So a movie like Enemy of the State—and I happen to know the writer [David Marconi] and he knows all about the New World Order—that's a pretty realistic film. It's just that it's condensed down to two hours and it's Hollywood-ized. You want to know another accurate movie? No Way Out, with Kevin Costner.
dOc: Can you give a thumbnail explanation of the New World Order, what that is exactly? Is there a definitive definition?
AJ: I think there is, and it's a global organized crime syndicate. It's a worldwide mafia that seeks to remove national sovereignty, individual liberties, and transfer the just powers of the people into the hands of a tiny cabal who maintain their power and expand their power.
dOc: Do you feel that is in process now, or in place now?
AJ: Yes, it's very slick, generational, great-grandchildren of robber barons and royalty, with huge bureaucracies that have grown up around them, protecting their wealth and expanding their wealth, using high-tech public relations spin and engaging in very sophisticated three-dimensional strategia.
dOc: In TerrorStorm, you draw some parallels between Nazi tactics and what is being done today by governments in order to create fear to keep the population in control. Do you think something like the fear of the bird flu is another boogeyman created to keep us line?
AJ: Yes. I believe SARS, the anthrax attacks, bird flu, all of this is part of a larger program to prepare us for controlled biological releases that will be used to radically re-engineer societies into a very authoritarian model overnight. Look at the anthrax attacks. Weaponized anthrax, mailed out to enemies of the White House, the White House was on Cipro—the anthrax-fighting antibiotic—admittedly four weeks before it even showed up. They've admitted it. Then we had SARS: "get ready for quarantine, it's going to everyone, it could kill a billion people." Just total hysteria. "Fire" in a theater.
dOc: I have the same feeling every year when the news media talks about the normal flu vaccination. It strikes me as the same kind of fear mongering.
AJ: You're right. Did you know that in the last five years the supposed flu variety that they make a flu vaccine for hasn't been the right flu that has proliferated. They guess how it's going to mutate, and the last five have not even been close. It's been totally worthless.
dOc: What's the average Joe supposed to do about all of this? It sometimes seems like all we coan do is just sit and watch, because it's already happening.
AJ: I want people out there to know that government-sponsored terror, false flag, self-inflicted wound terror is real. Terror is being used to destroy our entire future and our way of life, and deliver us into the hands of a high-tech despotism. We can fight city hall, we can affect change, and we can bring criminals to justice. There's always going to be corruption, but if we don't actively fight, it will run wild. And it's running wild right now. The message is: get informed, get involved, because really dark times are here, and even more dark times are ahead if we don't have a national renaissance, an awakening, a revelation to government-sponsored terror because governments will continue to use this as they have throughout history to get control. But if we are ever able to make it to where it is just public knowledge and common sense that governments do this, and if people start to look at governments and private corporations, and just who stands to gain from terror every time there's an event, they'll be forced to start doing something else. Problem. Reaction. Solution. Crisis creation is their number one tool, and we've got to break that tool in front of their faces.